Alaysia Brown: Awesome. Well, we're going to go ahead and jump into things. It is so good to have such a great group of people joining us tonight. Um, and thank you again. I'm going to say that a thousand times because you could be doing anything, but you're here supporting D by D supporting Sean. And we're super excited about that.

Um, like I've already mentioned, I'm Alaysia Brown community lead at diversify by design, and I will be your host for the chat tonight. Um, and so just to get into some things, some of you may know a ton about D by D, or some of you may know nothing about the coalition and are here for Sean, which is perfectly fine.

But for those of you with no background information we'd love to tell you more about D by D, and why we've even developed the AMA series. So, Diversified by Design is a coalition of organizations and individuals that joined forces in 2020 21. 2021, 2021 to create a more racially diverse and inclusive design industry.

Um, one of our critical goals is to create opportunities for historically excluded young people to learn more about design and connect with successful designers who look like them. And with that, we are so thrilled to welcome you to our Ask Me Anything event series. D by D's AMA series was developed by Provide a platform for designers who champion diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging to answer questions about their life, their career journey, the things that they're making.

And to kick off the series, we are so delighted to have Sean Williams, associate footwear designer at Vans and D by D advisory council member. So welcome Sean. We are so excited to have you on camera. Round of applause. How are you doing

Shawn Williams: today? Doing great. Doing great.

Alaysia Brown: Me too. Well, you know, like I said, we had our prep conversation and I was like, I'm as much of an audience member as everyone else.

So we can just dive into the question. So to kick things off, I would love to hear more about just where you came from. Your mom is here and mentioned that she's in Virginia right now. So I think just to kick us off, let us know about the beginning. Just what were your first experiences around design?

Shawn Williams: Oh man.

Wow. I got a very untraditional pathway, very unorthodox. So Richmond, Virginia DMV. If you know, you know, grew up in the city. I grew up around basketball, seeing graffiti art, and I was put into art classes, like elementary school, middle school. And everybody was asking me to draw different things. Someone was asking me to draw a building, to draw a teddy bear.

So I got all types of requests. So that just really sharpened my skill set. So I always had a passion for art. Would you, would you like for me to go through the whole thing?

Alaysia Brown: I say we go through the whole thing. We want to know we bring us K through 12. Okay. Let us know how we got from there to here.

Shawn Williams: For sure.

For sure. Okay. So a passion part. So that goes back to when I was a kid.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Shawn Williams: Um, the passion followed me throughout college, but I kind of took like a 10 year break from it. So when COVID happened and the country shut down, that's when I rediscovered my passion for drawing. And the first thing I drew was a shoe.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Shawn Williams: One shoe turned into two. Two turned into four, four turned into six, and that's when the light bulb went off, right? And at that time, I was a social worker, so I was inspired by my aunt. And just really wanted to elevate your community and help your community in different ways. You can elevate it in a variety of ways.

I chose to do it through a number two pencil. Just a little bit different, right? And so I took a chance. I bet it on myself. Took a leap of faith. Reached out to the Pencil Design Academy. And they assigned me a mentor, Chris Dixon from North Carolina. I took me under his wing, taught me the tools of the trade, embrace me.

And that led me to the doorsteps of pencil design academy. When I got to connect with Anna Smith, Dr. Dwayne Edwards, iconic figure in the game, um, which led me to a one year apprenticeship with VF stemming from a design 11 week design course. So I got the tour of the country. I got to live in New Hampshire.

I was freezing. It's a different type of cold working for Timberland. Then I went to California when I saw palm trees first time, I saw dolphins, got to work at Vans, yes, Utah, Denver, Colorado, right when I was hanging on the side of a mountain and

Alaysia Brown: okay,

Shawn Williams: you just

Alaysia Brown: gave me a lot to work with. You just gave me a whole lot to work with lots of states, lots of different brands.

I just heard. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna start kind of around high school time. So I don't know about you, but I remember when I was in high school, I knew in my gut what I wanted to do with my career. But I also knew what the number said in regard to salary and you know, what will make your parents quote unquote proud.

And so you mentioned that you're, you started as a social worker. What, what led you to that decision? Did you kind of feel the arts in your spirit, but you were just like social work? Seems safe. What kind of that high school to college transition? What was that like for you?

Shawn Williams: Yeah, actually, um, I was, uh, I was in the sales field as a recruiter, right?

So, and then a lot of the people that came into our building, I think, you know, I think they They really didn't quite have the job history or qualifications for me to really fill the positions. And I gravitated toward those people, the people that needed the extra help, the extra assistance. And it really wasn't about the money for me.

I started gravitating towards the actual person. And that's when it's starting to click. And really, I remember as a kid, you know, this being around my aunt and wanting her to give, wanting to give her the world and help elevate that community. And that's kind of where the passion started. That's when the wheels started spinning.

Alaysia Brown: Okay, cool. So just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, like when you were in high school, you kind of like had this tug in your heart of like, I want to like just help people. Social work was like your entry into just helping people.

Shawn Williams: Exactly.

Alaysia Brown: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Um, and so during that time, were you designing at all during that social work period when you were like, you know, helping people in that way?

What were you doing creatively?

Shawn Williams: I took a 10 year, I took a break from it.

Alaysia Brown: So this is where the 10 year break came in.

Shawn Williams: Yeah, exactly.

Alaysia Brown: I think that is, it's worth pausing right there. For anybody on the call, you paused for 10 years in between pursuing design. And I think that's important because I know it's so easy to just be like, You know, this hasn't worked this year.

I'm going in a different path and you feel like you can't ever pick it back up again. So it's so inspiring and encouraging that 10 years later, like you said, you took a break and then 10 years later, you picked it back up. So if I'm doing my math correctly, in like 2010, you started social work and you mentioned 2020.

So, what kind of happened in that space? You were doing social work, the pandemic hit, what happened there?

Shawn Williams: Yeah, social work, I would say it was actually 2017, I mean 2017, 2018. So, I did that for about 3 or 4 years and as the pandemic happened, that's when I rediscovered the passion for drawing.

Alaysia Brown: Okay.

Shawn Williams: Cause you had all this downtime.

I think this was the case for a lot of people. I think when you had the downtime to re evaluate your life, certain passions start to re spark.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, for sure. For sure. So I can keep going, but I don't want to be greedy with the insights and value and all the things that Sean has to say. So I'll stop really quickly.

And I'm wondering, is there anything that's come up for anyone so far that you're just like, I really want to ask Sean this when y'all said this, it kind of made me think this, and now I have a question. Going once, going twice. Okay, perfect. So let's keep it rolling, Sean. So the pandemic hit and then what happened?

So it's March, it's March 2020. And where are you right now?

Shawn Williams: So in the social work field, and you have downtime, right? You have more downtime than usual. And then that's kind of where you kind of start finding your passion again. So that's kind of where I mentioned in the beginning where I started drawing again.

Yeah, like a kind of a lightbulb moment. I just had a piece of paper lying around, started sketching. And first thing I drew was a shoe and that really kind of honed in and I thought to myself, I had no awareness of the design field at all. I had no clue what a shoe designer was or how you even begin to embark on that pathway.

I was just drawing shoes. And then I looked up, I did a Google search. Thank God for Google, right? Yes. And that's bring me to Pencil Design Academy and it just took off from there.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit more about what Pencil is? Yes.

Shawn Williams: Yeah, it was founded by Dr. Dwayne Edwards. Um, he did some time at LA gear cross colors.

I don't know if y'all remember cross colors way back.

Alaysia Brown: I remember LA gear. I'm like, I don't know too much about cross

Shawn Williams: colors. Yeah. And then he did, um, I want to say maybe 20 years at Jordan brand.

Alaysia Brown: Okay.

Shawn Williams: And one of the things he noticed was the lack of diversity in the design field. And, and it's one of those things where he took it upon himself to kind of challenge the industry.

Right. So he retired. And he built, opened up a design academy in Portland, Oregon, called Pencil Design Academy, which is now at HBCU in Detroit. And I remember talking to Dr. Edwards. You know, and he used to say, uh, before the school opened, he's like, yeah, I'm gonna open up in the school. I didn't think nothing at the time, but he actually did it.

Alaysia Brown: And that's

Shawn Williams: where pencil is today. So

Alaysia Brown: awesome. Awesome. So you applied to the program. What was the application process like to pencil? And just, you mentioned that. You know, your background in design beyond you just being a passion of yours is pencil. So before you got to pencil, like I'm sure there were like applications that required attachments.

Is there a portfolio work? Did you have any of that going into the pencil um, program? Like what was that application process like? I had no

Shawn Williams: clue. This is literally from scratch. So I didn't know what illustrator was. I didn't know what a design portfolio was. So they basically asked me to record a video and send two sketches.

Right, so I think 400 people submitted and they picked 27. I was one of the 27. They knocked it down to 18 and they knocked it down to 5 and they gave that 5 an apprenticeship.

Alaysia Brown: And you were one of the 5.

Shawn Williams: Yes.

Alaysia Brown: That is, uh, me and you know, I'm not here to be a preacher, but that is why people say what is for you is for you also, because you know, it's just, those numbers are incredible.

Um, and so you got into the program. Let's see, we do have one question. So I'm going to pause because like I said, I don't want to, I want to make this everyone's conversation. Natalia and Natalia, Natalia, actually, you can come off of mute and ask your question.

Natalia M: I just didn't want to like forget and then I'm over here trying to listen to what you're saying, but between I mean those two careers are so different.

And I really want to know your sentiment on like how you found out that you wanted to make that career change and like what pushed your button to be like, I'm going to take that leap of faith and really go for it. Because that career changes. So, you know, it's really, really different. So how did you even think about like, I'm going to apply to this school and I'm just going to make it like it's going to work out for me?

What made you think of that? Or what was your thought process?

Shawn Williams: I think it's taking on a bigger purpose, right? One side of it is I have a passion for art. I have a passion for sneakers. And then the other side of it is I don't really see this in my city. I don't see a pathway. We don't really have the awareness.

There's a lack of diversity in this industry. So it's really taking it upon yourself to become like an inspiration to be like, uh, it's almost like a bigger purpose. I'm so community minded and that's what makes you really love the job. Design is cool, but I'm here for a bigger purpose.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely, absolutely.

And Natalia, thank you so much for asking that question. Um, let's see, there was one other question that I saw coming in, but you know what, we're going to actually pause before we ask that question because it's going to come up in our conversation. So, you, one in five, You are one in five. You are starting this program.

I'm wondering, did you have any experiences with imposter syndrome? And if so, how did you navigate that? Because like you said, you're just, you're talented, no doubt. And also one in five, you're like, I have to show them what I'm made of now. They've accepted me into this program. What was that like for you?

Shawn Williams: For sure. I'm real quick. I want to give a shout out. So it was that they actually picked five. Okay. So Gagan, Jesus, and Ashley, and Gabo. I love y'all. That was my pencil crew. Two of them are at Timberland and Ashley's with me at Vance and Gabo's going back to school. So I want to shout them out. And so imposter system, that's a real thing.

I think when you don't have the traditional design education pathway, when you don't have that background, you find yourself trying to be like other people instead of embracing what makes you unique. It's really a superpower, right? Because you don't think like everybody else. You don't, your presentations don't look like everybody else.

Your sketches don't look like everybody else. So it's really for, it's real easy for self doubt to creep in. But honestly, that what makes you unique, your gifts, that's a superpower. And that only empowers you.

Alaysia Brown: Yes. So you just, you wrote, you wrote your individuality throughout the entire program. That is amazing.

And I think it's re reassuring and reaffirming to a lot of the designers that are on the call, because I'm sure it is so easy to your point to be like, I'm looking for inspiration, but I want to stay true to who I am. What's the balance. And I love that you're just like, when in doubt, believe in yourself, essentially.

So that's amazing. Alrighty. So you made it through the program. What, like, what, what even happened in that pencil program? How long was it? Did you come out of it with a portfolio? What was that experience like?

Shawn Williams: Yeah, it was 11 weeks. So, uh, the first three weeks was kind of like the basics, the fundamentals of design.

Now keep in mind, I'm learning all of this from scratch. So I'm learning Illustrator for the first time. I'm learning what a mood board is. I have no concept of this at all, right? So after the three weeks, it's kind of like the TV show Survivor. Like after three weeks, they cut it down to 18. So

Alaysia Brown: I just kept

Shawn Williams: surviving round by round.

You stayed

Alaysia Brown: on the island.

Shawn Williams: And then I think the additional eight weeks is kind of like the taking the fundamentals and really like doubling down like a more intensive look into design. So you think you're talking about sketching, you're talking about color, you talk about presentation aspect of it. And then it leads to a final presentation and then you get your final five.

Alaysia Brown: Awesome. And when you say your final five, what do you mean by that?

Shawn Williams: Um, what I mentioned earlier. So Ashley, uh, God, I thought you were talking about your final five like product.

Alaysia Brown: I was like, did you design five different shoes? Do you have with, but the, no, the, the graduates and the people that you shouted out.

I feel that. So you're leaving pencil. You have your graduating class, essentially five.

Shawn Williams: Yep.

Alaysia Brown: Do you all begin applying to roles? What was that process like?

Shawn Williams: So after the five is, is finally picked, that's when the apprenticeship happens. Yeah. So we can do the one year apprenticeship. So that's where I was going back country and like state to state.

Alaysia Brown: So the apprenticeship was earned post. Yes. It was a part of the pencil program.

Shawn Williams: Yes.

Alaysia Brown: Shout out to the pencil program because the, those opportunities are amazing. Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's super cool. So once you left the pencil program, the apprenticeship began, tell us more about

Shawn Williams: that. That was amazing.

Pencil is tuition free. I might add. That's a game changer. You just need motivation, hungry, and talent.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, absolutely. So the apprenticeship program, you mentioned like New Hampshire, Denver, like what was the first day of like your apprenticeship? How long did it last? What experience did you gain, um, in that apprenticeship?

Shawn Williams: For sure. Uh, it lasted one year. So Timberland, New Hampshire was the first stop. That was four months. And you got to kind of see the world of Timberland. Okay. So that's like outdoor product, you know, Timberland Pro, that's like your workwear product as well. So you got the introduction to that. And then you moved on to Vans.

So you got introduction to the skateboarding culture, like self expression, no more on the artistic side, right? And then so you're also catching a white West Coast lifestyle, which is completely new for I'm from VA. That's completely another world. And then you got introduced to Denver, right? North Face, um, uh, did some time or ultra or running company, right?

And you got kind of introduced kind of to the outdoor category in a different ways where you kind of had to do outdoor activities. And learning about running shoes, like hiking shoes, things of that nature. I got a chance to work with smart wool. That's where my collab came about. I had a chance to learn how to design socks.

So yeah, that's kind of a one year. So I got a variety of experiences.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. And then Ahmad asked, while touring the nation and designing for various VF brands, what was your process in finding the right brand you wanted to work alongside? Because we now know that you ended up at Vans, but what was that like?

Shawn Williams: Um, I gravitated towards Vans, you know, I gravitated towards a more of a lifestyle type of style, right? And Vans is centered in lifestyle. Also, I think one of the things I noticed was, It's kind of the lack of diversity in the office, right? So I felt like if you're going to make an impact, that's where it's going to be.

That's your chance to do it. So it was a little bit of everything, a little bit of the design aspect of it. And, uh, your purpose aspect.

Alaysia Brown: Alrighty. So you are officially in the van stores. This is like day one at Vans. The apprenticeship is over. You're at Vans. Did you just, were you like, did you have to apply to all these, like to the different brands or were you able to kind of like select where you were going to go?

Or did it just, was it based on availability and who was hiring? How did you like get the role that you're in now?

Shawn Williams: Yes, very unique. So they had us rank where we wanted to go, where we felt, you know, the most passionate about. And then the brands came back with their ranking of ideally who, what candidate they saw.

Yeah, there's a mutual number one. The offer is made. So I guess dance had me number one, I guess. That's

Alaysia Brown: amazing. That's amazing. And I think all of us sitting here are just like, of course, they ranked you number one, like the vibes are immaculate, like, of course. Um, no, I love that you all selected one another, essentially.

And so I wonder. And I, I wonder the impact that that had on your first day, because I know that I've gone into offices before that, you know, I walk into offices and there have been times where there are, there's no one that looks like me and it can be super intimidating. It can be really uncomfortable.

You're just like, Hi, everyone. You hired me. I'm here, but it's still a bit awkward. And so I wonder for you, coming from the point of view to where you selected bands and bands also selected you in that way. What was your first day like?

Shawn Williams: Uh, it was amazing, right? Um, now, like, mind you, I had some time. I had, I was familiar with the space already during the apprenticeship.

I had four months there. So a lot of it is kind of really just catching up with the people. Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, there's a, there's a change in energy, right? So apprentice, you don't affect the company's bottom line, right? As a full time salary employee, the expectations, the responsibilities are different.

Right. But I walked into this space with a challenge mentality. You challenge the way we view compassion in a corporate space, right? You challenge the way a person of color shows up in a corporate space. And you challenge the way we think of designers, like more than a designer. The empowerment of the designer.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah. That's

Shawn Williams: my goal was to challenge the space.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, I love that. That's amazing. Um, one other question that I had. So you've been, this is, we just talked about your first day. How long have you been at Vans to date?

Shawn Williams: It's almost two years. I'm gonna say a year and a half. It's getting close. Two years. And

Alaysia Brown: how would you describe the last two years as a designer at Vans?

As a black man, who is a designer at Vans, what has that experience been like for you over the past two years?

Shawn Williams: Oh, it's been amazing. I think, I think sometimes what a lot of people don't understand is what we, we have a lot in our backpack that we bring into this space. So there's a weight of representation.

There's the weight of inspiring your city. There's a weight of mentorship. There's a lot of different, a variety of weights, right? In addition to your daily responsibilities and job duties, right? So it's a lot to take on, right? And you have to be built to prepare for that because you're an inspiration from day one, whether you signed up for it or not, like, that's not something you can turn off, right?

And it's really about, you know, really challenge going back to what I was saying, challenging the space, right? I'm such a community minded individual. I just want people to look at design in a different way or what a designer can be in a different way.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. And even what a designer looks like how a designer speaks, you know, it's so important to have that representation.

Shawn Williams: Um,

Alaysia Brown: Some people submitted questions when they registered,

Shawn Williams: and

Alaysia Brown: so I'm gonna go Andy Cohen style to these questions, and I'll kick it off with Jackie Cassidy. So Jackie Cassidy from Black Rock Middle School asked, said, Hi, Sean, I'm a middle school art teacher. How did your experience in art classes, if you took any, prepare you for your career choice?

Shawn Williams: That's a great question. Great question. I kind of mentioned in the beginning. I think what tends to happen when you, when you kind of need art classes early on. Yeah. Someone that can draw, like the class identifies you as that person. So you become like the de facto person like there's a project.

Everybody wants to pick you or if they need something drawn everybody goes to you.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Shawn Williams: So you just got a lot of practice like drawing different types of things.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. I used to ask people who had the best handwriting, like, like design, like my notebook or something. I'm like, I'm not writing it, but I'll get, I'll get the designer in class to design it.

So that's so true. Um, I have more questions, but I just want to, does anyone that's online live right now have any comments, even Natalia? Yes. We love

Natalia M: another question. I'm sorry. I just, I'm very interested in this conversation. I love it. Um, I have a question as to it's a little bit hard But I feel like it could be important for like other designers and actually like for me Sometimes when we have that imposter syndrome where we feel like we don't fit in What do you say to yourself or what would you tell a young person going into the corporate field or just like?

An office where they feel like they're the only one or they might be the only one like what is your pep talk? What do you say to yourself? You're like, I don't know what to do here you're like What do you say to yourself to pump yourself up?

Shawn Williams: You're here for a reason. Right? You're here for a reason, right?

There's, going back to what I was saying, that you're a one on one, like you're a unicorn. Like, you're unique. You have to embrace that. It's like a superpower. I keep saying it, but it's like a legit superpower that you can turn on and you have a unique set of skills, or you may come from somewhere where like may other designers may not have right.

The technical ability, you can learn that over time, but your community mindset. your compassion, your storytelling, what you bring into this space. You sometimes you can teach it. Sometimes you can't, you either have it or you don't. So you embrace what makes you unique. That's your superpower, right? And you show it, you don't hide it.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. Show your superpower. And it's so true. If we, if you reference cartoons that we watched growing up, none of the superheroes were like, Oh, you know, I'm not going to go save the day to day. They, they all did. So I love that, Sean. I think that's amazing. Um, again, thank you so much for your participation and keep the questions coming.

Is there anyone else with comments or just, um, questions that they may have for Sean or just any parallels in his story that you were like, I resonate with that.

Kelli Wilbert: Hey, Kelly here. So yeah, similar trajectory of worked in social impact kind of nonprofit space. My mother was a career social worker. A lot of people in my family are and then, you know, made a transition into design industry and service design in particular.

But, uh, yeah, so I completely understand the path and the imposter syndrome, right? Um, and just even recognizing that it's not enough of you in these spaces. Like, I started off in civic design and healthcare because I'm like, I don't see enough of myself at the table for populations being served. That have very dire consequences for myself not being there, um, to inform those design and product service choices.

Right. I'm just wondering coming from social work. I know from just my past experience, like, how do you or what do you really pull on from and social work for how you currently work now? Um, and just kind of like, because I always try to build on, like, my lived experiences. Right. And like. remind myself of, like, you have this whole, like, skill set, um, that makes you very unique for what you do now and the rights no one else has, because you had something completely different versus someone who maybe went to art or design school.

Um, and then, like, also have you have moments too where you have, like, share that with, you Um, how do you, how do you, how do you communicate with any co workers or people in the industry and just have them kind of think differently?

Shawn Williams: Yeah, great, great question. Great question. It really, I would say it really comes.

It comes into play when I present my designs. Right. I think typically with a designer, you'll your picture design, you'll go through the details, the technical aspects of it, but my, my strength is storytelling, right? It's the complete package. So typically what I do is I may make it, I may add a personal touch to it.

I might kind of bring a full circle, make this bigger than design. I know we have to design a product. It has to be functional, has to meet a certain price point, but I want it to make an impact. Like when you look at that, when you look at the story, I'm like, man, I got to buy that. Like, like it touched me.

Like, I feel like when you present, you have to leave your mark when you leave the room. Like people be like, I can't, man, we have to go with that. It can't be denied, right? So that's kind of part of it too. And, and what I'll do is I'll share that with, you know, my coworkers, right? Sometimes they'll ask me, you know, tips on how to present or how do I make storytelling more on a personal aspect.

I think when you come into the design space, It's somewhat missing, right? Because I think sometimes we're so solution based, problem solving, technical based. I think we sometimes lack that other part. But yeah, I'm just enjoying it. Just embracing that and just showing up in a different way. Like, when you leave that room, you know, I want that presentation to be felt.

Kelli Wilbert: Thanks. Yeah, no, I love the human aspect. I agree. Like, it's always lined up to a business outcome, but it's like, what is the human element in the story? Especially when you are creating something too, when like something that's physical, like that's something that I'm like, we just, like, I could just see it becoming more divorced in the industry, which is just something I'm like watching.

Alaysia Brown: Love that. Thank you for asking that question, Kelly. Um, one other question that was submitted when someone registered. Crystal Fortune from Designer Brands asked, What is your favorite part of the design process? And what is the most challenging part of the design process?

Shawn Williams: Man, that's a deep one.

Alaysia Brown: I

Shawn Williams: think my favorite part is putting the presentation together.

Alaysia Brown: What's your presentation style? Are you like a slides person? Are you like you write out your script? What's your, what's your process like when presenting?

Shawn Williams: Man, it's, I do marketing pitch.

Alaysia Brown: Okay.

Shawn Williams: So what I'll do is I'll put the shoe in an environment that represents my culture, or I'll put it on like a. a different type of clothing.

Yeah. Or I'll put it in like a, a store, like I'll photoshop it. Just really creative. Like, I feel like when people visualize it, when they make that cultural connection, that's when it goes a lot more deeper. It's a very unorthodox way to do it, but it really grabs people's attention.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. And what do you find to be the most challenging part of the design process?

Shawn Williams: The rejection part. So what you'll find is

Alaysia Brown: The R word. The R word. Rejection.

Shawn Williams: I know it's a bad word, but that's the reality. But

Alaysia Brown: the more we hear it, the more comfortable we get. I don't want to interrupt you too much because I'm excited to hear what you have to

say

about it.

Shawn Williams: For sure. I think when you talk about the business aspect of it, I think out of everything that we do, maybe 10, 15 or 20 percent actually makes it to the shelf.

So there's a lot of no's. There's a lot of, yeah, we can't do this right now. And the challenging part is In a sense, you have to kind of ground yourself. Yeah. But I think me and my crew, what they think is cool may not be necessarily cool for the masses, right? So you have to learn to design for a different type of consumer that may not look like you.

Yeah. Right. So it's really about kind of not getting rid of those ideas, but keeping those ideas in your back pocket. But also knowing that not every idea is going to go through a majority of them are just not going to be able to fit or not going to be able to make it through and just being okay with that you got to pick and choose your battles.

Alaysia Brown: I was about to ask how do you you maybe you have not dealt with this challenge would love to hear have internalizing rejection. Have you dealt with that? Is that something that you had to like in the beginning be like, I cannot internalize this. This is not a personal attack on my work. What has been your experience with that?

Shawn Williams: You flip it into a positive. I just had a kid shoe that dropped but during my time of designing that shoe, I learned so much. All right. So now it's to the point. I don't even care drop like I just learned so much while I was doing it. I flipped into a positive. I was down. But the amount of knowledge I got from that experience, like, that's a positive

all

day.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah, focusing on the journey and not necessarily the destination. I love that. Any other questions or comments that we may have from people that are live? I know this is an Ask Me Anything with Sean. So I just want to create space as much as possible for individuals live to ask any questions or to just add to the conversation that we're having currently.

Chris DeSantis: Yeah, uh, Alaysia, if I could. Hi, Sean. Um,

Shawn Williams: How you doing?

Chris DeSantis: I'm good. I'm great now listening to you. Thank you very much. I'm duly inspired. Um, and I'm curious, how do you flip that switch? Because I hear what you're saying. I love what you're saying. There's a mechanical part of that step process. And I think that, yeah, younger people when they're just getting their feet wet with design and they're getting slammed and slammed and slammed and it's like either you're not gonna make money on this or yeah it's really not too good.

How do you flip that switch of rejection and get that to the positive? What's that process look like?

Shawn Williams: I think you, you take the feedback and you don't immediately react to it. You, you kind of sit with it, you unpack it, and you process. I think people tend to rush it. And want to react quickly. Right? And you kind of understand why the feedback is coming the way it is or what is the feedback, the justification behind it.

And once you start learning those elements, it goes back to like, okay, this is a positive. It's not, you know, a drop, you know, you look at the business reasons and things like that, but it's for the, it's the bigger picture. It's for the brand overall. Like, I can't take that personally. Right? It's not a personal thing against me.

It's what's best for the brand.

Alaysia Brown: Gotcha, gotcha. Andrea, I noticed you went off of mute. Was there something that you wanted to add as well?

Andréa Pellegrino: Yeah, I wanted to ask you probably a really unfair question, Sean. Knowing, knowing that, that we've You know, we've formed this coalition all together to answer this question, but you hear your story and, you know, I just look to see like our first communication was just around this time last year when I saw your story for the first time and reached out to you.

And how do we. That that one person out of 400 and whatever applications that were sent into pencil. And we don't know how good they all were how you know we don't we don't know the quality of those applications but let's assume, even a quarter of them were decent, you know, good. How do we make more opportunities like the one you, you, you know, got through pencil and, and I don't expect you to sit here and answer that, but I, but I bring it to the group because that's, you know, this, this advisory council that you're on and, and this group of organizations is, you know, going down the, the very long road of, of trying to provide solution for, for that very long road.

Um, big challenge. So I know you think about it, too. And I know that's why you're here for

Shawn Williams: sure. For sure. I can I can start it off with something and I don't think it has to be a revolutionary type of effort. I think is a lot of a lot of times what happens is you have kids like this all across our communities, they have a like a gift.

Like somebody might be walking past the kid and they're drawing like a car. And it's just the community recognizing, identifying like a kid with a gift early. And it could be something as simple as, all right, I'm gonna give you a sketchpad. Like I'm gonna give this kid a set of markers. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, right?

And then like that, then it sparks something in that kid. And, and you have this, right? It becomes this right here. Right. So I think a lot of, you know, my time growing up is really the community identifying something in me and giving me the tools to achieve that goal. Right. Because they saw something in me.

I like, Oh, this is different. This is unique. This is special. Let's empower him. Right. And then I think the second part from like a bigger picture, I think it's really getting the schools involved. I think really starting early, right? I think elementary, I mean, middle school, like high school, but bringing more awareness, like before I'm from Richmond, Virginia, I had no clue this pathway existed.

If we didn't have Google, I'm not sure I'd be here. I had no clue. I had no clue existed. So you can imagine there's so many people out there that have no clue, they've probably drawn shoes, but man, there's this footwear designer, that's something that can actually be. So that's kind of my, I know there's so much more, but that's the short end

Andréa Pellegrino: Thanks Shawn

Shawn Williams: start simple, doesn't have to be a crazy effort in the beginning.

Andréa Pellegrino: Yeah, maybe part of our job at the coalition is to is to help educate the community right about about about. design. Thanks. Sure.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. I love that. And I think also just the audacity, you know, to, to believe that you can, I think, you know, some people, like you mentioned, it's what's poured into you at a young age that gives you that audacity to be like, I can, I can apply to this.

You know, it's like even in that moment where you decided to submit that video, that was, you know, um, confidence and self esteem and self assurance that was poured into you, I'm sure years and years before that webpage opens in front of you. So I think also just encouraging kids with the audacity to apply for those things, you know, um, And Kay asked the question, Kay, thank you so much for asking this question.

Kay says, hi, Sean, loving this conversation. My question is knowing what you know now about the footwear industry, if you were to start all over. What steps would you take to break into the industry?

Shawn Williams: That's another deep one.

Alaysia Brown: All over. As soon as I read all over, I'm like,

Shawn Williams: I would say, man, I would really, I would say illustrator. I'm going to get more technical with this one. I would say learning software programs early. Cause I had no clue. I had to give myself a break. I had no clue existed, but really understanding how.

So I think software programs, stitching, like knowing what I know now, I probably would have spent some more time with my grandma, like just learning, like just learning, you know, how she used to crochet these blankets, you know, on rest in peace and spending more time with her and just watching how her fingers moved and just understanding how to create.

Early on. Right. And I think that skill is just such a amazing skill. And then I say, I would do on the orthodox to public speaking, right? A big part of the job is sales. Right. And it's, I believe in my vision. I believe in my design, but you have to make the whole room believe in it.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Shawn Williams: Right. And you have to be the ability to sell your vision and public speaking is a elite top tier skill.

Right. If you have that and you can design and you have all these other, you know, things in your toolbox, that truly makes you a unicorn.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely. Alrighty. And then Marquise Jones, who is on the call, shout out to your co worker, your fellow VF partner from the North Face Acts. What's a core skill you believe someone should have when trying to enter the design space?

Absolutely.

Shawn Williams: Hmm. Hmm. Debility. I'mma repeat myself, my bad. Oh, it's cool. Sell your vision, right? I can't emphasize that enough. Like, there's There's people out there that can draw like a box or stick figure. But the way they sell it, you would buy it.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah. I mean, we've seen that in fashion lately. You know, there are like your Balenciaga is coming out with like IKEA bags and selling them for like 900.

But to your point, the storytelling makes you like Let me go read a little bit more about that.

Shawn Williams: It makes you a one on one, because it's something that you don't see that often. Because if you have that storytelling aspect, and you do it to a top tier level, you may be the only one on your team that can do that, right?

It makes such a unique skill, and what happens is that creates opportunities. And in terms you become like a representation, like an inspiration to like really spread your vision like other places as well. There's such a, a unique skill that you don't, I don't know if it's taught in design. I think, I think the elevator pitch and things of that nature.

Yeah. But I'm talking about something deeper, like meaningful, like impactful. I go back to my project I shared doing Apprenticeship Advanced. Um, I dedicated to my mom and my aunt and it was a, it was a women's shoe. And uh, after I presented, uh, half the room was crying, you know, I, I think that's kind of where that's, that's what drives me industry for.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. And shout out to mom on the call. And Natalia said, can I ask a part two for that question? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Natalia M: Okay. I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I knowing the tools, cause there's tools that we had, like I'm a younger kid. I've been in the industry like now 10 years, but in 10 years, it's changed so much to the kids that are in high school now.

Like

we had Photoshop back in the day with the little tools that they added, but now you have so many different tools and also so many different ways to get like seen by bigger companies. You have Tik TOK, you have social media. You have all these things. What do you suggest somebody in high school now to start, like where should they start?

Should they be working on a portfolio? Should they be putting themselves online? Should they been, should they be asking for internships? Like what do you suggest a person with the tools that we have now, like what to do so then they can get into this type of industry?

Shawn Williams: Sure. Starts with the software programs, right?

So that's, that's kind of like minimal, right? So that's Illustrator, that's your Photoshop, Sketchbook Pro. I would even think, we're not quite there yet, but 3D programs, like that's the future, right? So if you come into the industry with somewhat experience in that, that'll get you noticed for sure, definitely.

And then it's kind of like the other skills that go beyond design. I mentioned it before, presentation skills, like public speaking, um, marketing, like how do you, one of the things that. Like I did when my shoe came out, I did a photo shoot for it. Like the company didn't do no marketing for it. I just took it upon myself to do it.

It's because of your vision, right? You can, you want to control your vision, right? You're the best person to tell your story. Right. So it's just little things like that, like the marketing skills, the presentation skills, the combination with the software programs, um, understanding trends, really seeing the world, like seeing, going into different stores, like part of my job is I designed for the value account.

And I also designed for the lifestyle boutique account, two different consumers. Right. But when you're able to do that, you become so well versed. I hope that answers your question.

Alaysia Brown: There are so many heads like, yes, yes, yes. We are so excited. We are waiting for the next shoe to drop. We're like, drop something so we can buy it right now.

We are so excited and so inspired by this conversation. Um, we have another question that was asked and I don't want to butcher your name, so feel free to come off of mute and ask the question. I didn't hear you,

Shawn Williams: Carla.

Alaysia Brown: Carla. Carla's like, nevermind . All righty. So we have um, I think it's pronounced Koto or Koto, if I mispronounced it.

I'm sorry about that. Um, they asked, hi Sean. Thanks for sharing my job search post on LinkedIn a while back. It's . I don't think Sean, you'll support and we love to see that. Um, I wanted to ask you what is a great way to pitch a vision that you may have, for example, if I wanted to present a vision that I see fitting for Vans or Timbaland, what's a great way to showcase that?

Shawn Williams: Man, great question. Great question. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of in the midst of this right now. There's a project that I'm working on and And instead of your standard presentation, I want to make a mini movie, right? So things like that, things that people wouldn't do, or they may not necessarily take the time to do it.

Like, I would look into that, like things that can really push the boundaries of what a presentation is or what we typically see, right? That would be like, wow. Like, so yeah, you know, just really creating a mini, a mini movie, um, adding a soundtrack and things of that nature. My head is spinning right now, but.

Those ideas that you typically don't see, you know, tap into that.

Alaysia Brown: And it just sounds like it's like, what, what would shock me if I were on the other side of this presentation, what would make me be like, Oh, that's cool. You know, just kind of, again, just trusting your vision, if it would, you know, make you excited, it probably would make the other person on the other end engaged and excited.

But we have a little bit more time left. Is there any last questions, comments that anyone has for Sean? everyone.

Andréa Pellegrino: I have a question, who's with mom.

Alaysia Brown: Say that again, Andrea.

Andréa Pellegrino: Who's sitting there with mom.

Angie (Shawn’s mom): Oh, okay. Um, this is my sister. I mean, my sister, which is Sean's aunt. The one that he dedicated the Shoes to.

Andréa Pellegrino: Yay. I'm

Angie (Shawn’s mom): proud of

Sean.

Alaysia Brown: And mom, what is one of your earliest memories now that we've got you here would and for on to what is some of y'all's earliest memories of like Sean? Um, designing what what was that like for y'all just being like, he is talented,

Angie (Shawn’s mom): you know, it started back when we noticed that he was a left handed person.

And then the first drawing that I ever remember he drew. My parents house, his grandparents house, down to the detail of the rocks and the shadows. And I mean, it was phenomenal for his age to be that detail oriented. And ever since then, he's always been drawing. He's drew, drew, uh, my book club logo.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah.

Angie (Shawn’s mom): We, um, got him to do that. He drew that and he's just been drawing. I've watched him years and years and years of just drawing.

Alaysia Brown: Yeah,

Angie (Shawn’s mom): just go in this room and just draw, draw, draw.

Alaysia Brown: I love that. It's one of those things that doesn't leave you, like you said, regardless of when you decide to go full throttle, if it's in your spirit and on your heart, you know, it comes out whether you like it or not, whether you want it to or not.

Chris DeSantis: I've got another question for mom and auntie. Um, it. One of the things that we see in in young people, um, whether they're know about designer aspiring design is, um, an absence on near absence of parental support. There's not going to be enough money in design. It's not really understood what design is.

Should go be a doctor, a lawyer or something else. Um, how did you navigate Sean's transition from social work, which I'm sure you're incredibly proud of, to design, and how have you supported his creativity and his creative spirit all this time?

Angie (Shawn’s mom): You know, I've always thought Sean was very talented when it comes to art, because he, like I said, I've watched him from the age that he started drawing until present, even though, like he said, he did take some time off.

I just supported him any way I could, and I was always there when he had needed help asking for questions or whether buying art supplies or whatever. I was always there for him. And supporting him as well. But it's just like I say, it's just started at a very young age when he was just draw all the time.

And like you say, he would draw shoes all the time. Shoes and he drew, um, I think a VCU basketball, one of the basketball players. He drew a picture of him. And that kind of stuck to me because I'm a BC, I graduated from VCU as well. And, um, it's just, I'm just so proud of him. You know, the, the sad part is that he moved out of Virginia to the West coast, but outside of that, I've, I've loved, love him where he's doing and he's pat and Sean is a person, compassionate person.

He's a, he always wants to help you. He's, he's very, um, oriented into that.

Shawn Williams: Yeah.

Angie (Shawn’s mom): But I'm proud. I'm a very proud mom. Yeah. I'm proud of him too. And his auntie. He always been drawn since he was a little boy. Yeah, I remember when he drew, um, my mom's old house, I don't know how old was I, was I six, seven? Yeah, I think he was about seven or eight.

Yeah, I remember, he's just been drawing ever since. Yeah,

Alaysia Brown: yes

Angie (Shawn’s mom): I have all those drawings, too. I kept them.

Alaysia Brown: We need to see them. We're gonna like, Sean, write like a blog post dedicated to your old drawings, okay? That's where we're at in conversation right now. I think we

Chris DeSantis: need a, we need a, uh, an SW gallery.

Alaysia Brown: And now I'm like for every AMA can we ensure that the speaker brings a family member?

I'm like, this is just too good. This is perfect.

Chris DeSantis: This is how he got here, right? This is how Sean got here.

Alaysia Brown: Exactly. So I guess we have time for one more question. If there is any, Sean, you have given us so much. So much information. We are so appreciative of your time, of the insights that you have given, of the encouragement that you have given.

I'm like, are you going to write an affirmations book? You should, because I think we're all like, this is just so great. Um, Dee Brown, I see that you came off of mute. Are you going to ask our last question of the night?

Guest: Sure, I'd love to ask the last question.

Alaysia Brown: Awesome.

Guest: I want to ask, how does it feel knowing you the past 12 years, um, watching you become the man and the person that you've become, and how does it feel to go from, you know, working in that, when I met you, working in that deli at Walmart, now you're out on the West Coast, how does it feel to see your dreams actually come true?

Man,

Shawn Williams: I appreciate it, Daryl. Thank you, Daryl. Oh man, it's crazy. I probably have a pinch me moment every day. Like it's so real. I never thought I'd be in California. I never thought I'd be designing shoes. You know, I think the one thing that drives me is the ongoing themes to give back and legacy. I think somebody said a quote and we, um, when you write your legacy, write it in a Sharpie marker, so it can't be erased.

Like that's, that's when I'm really big on, right? So when you leave, when you take that final lap of life, It's all said and done, and what did you leave behind? Right? So, yeah, that's what keeps me going. I think ultimately, if I can do what Dwayne did, you know, he retired, he paved the way, he opened up a school.

If I can do that for, you know, the city of Richmond, I think I can ride off into the sunset. So that's my goal. Sneak peek.

Alaysia Brown: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank you so much on the time really just like flew by the conversation has been so so so so so so great. Before we wrap up, I do want to encourage everyone I dropped some links in the chat.

One is to our website. If you scroll the diversified by design website, if you scroll all the way down, you can sign up for our newsletter. I also dropped our Instagram page that you should definitely follow. We are on LinkedIn, super active there as well. We are planning to have so many more conversations like this, this year.

Um, so definitely keep in touch with us, Sean. I am going to say thank you a thousand more times because this has been so great. Um, Andrea, Chris, is there anything that you want to add before we hop off?

Chris DeSantis: Only that I, I am in awe of you, Sean, and your commitment and dedication to making a difference in the design industry.

And I applaud your family, your mom, your auntie, for being there for you, because not a lot of, um, kids, black, brown, yellow, their parents are like, no, go do something else. I don't know what this is. I don't, you know, drawing, you're not going to make any money. And. The fact that you had that you have this powerhouse behind you and you capitalized on it and you have developed this process of taking your step through the paces of, which that hurts, let me fix this let me look at a different way.

And let me take this to the mat and hit it out of the ballpark and. All of these, these tidbits of wisdom that you just dropped on the D by D community this evening are worth their weight in gold and I can't thank you enough. So we're passing this on across the D by D universe, because people really need to hear your story and thank you so much for sharing it with us.

Shawn Williams: No problem, like the growing pains I go through as a designer. You know, the struggles, the highs and lows. I learned from it. I embrace it. I pass it off to the next generation. They study it. They build on it and they take it to the next level and they become a better version of us. So that's what it's all about at the end of the day.

Ooh, got chills. I have chills.

Andréa Pellegrino: I'm just going to add that, um, you know, there are these moments when you cross people's paths in this life that you, you are very, very sure that the universe has conspired on your behalf. And that is how I felt from the very first conversation we had with you, and that I had with you.

Um, you can ask any of my colleagues on this call, I came off of. Talking to you and I was, I was inspired and hi, you know, um, not literally folks, but I was, and, um, it's, it's a blessing. It's a blessing to know you. Thanks, Sean. Thank you.

Chris DeSantis: And, and thank you to our amazing moderator, Alaysia Brown.

Andréa Pellegrino: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris DeSantis: For leading us down this conversation with, with Sean and the crew.

And you just knocked it out of the ballpark, both of you. Thanks. I think we should take this on the road, .

Alaysia Brown: That's fine. Yeah. We, I mean, next stop la Absolutely. . All righty. Well, with that, like I said, um, the LinkedIn, um, the, the link to our LinkedIn is in. Chad Instagram website. Keep up with us. There will be a lot more conversations like the one that we had tonight.

We appreciate you all for being here, Sean. Thank you. And we will see y'all next time.

Shawn Williams: Take care.

Chris DeSantis: Bye Sean's mom. Bye Sean.

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